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December 02, 2009

Comments

eah919

Interesting- but it seems the conclusion that lower-debt-at graduation rates is directly correlated to levels of financial aid may not necessarily be true, depending on how the data was contructed. For instance, say, Princeton has a much larger percentage of kids with rich parents who foot the bill entirely and take on no debt. Or, say, Caltech has a higher-than-normal proportion of graduate students to undergraduates, students who (in some departments) teach and do research, and get tuition waivers and assistantships to help foot the bill. Thus, unless all these myriad demographic and institutional-makeup factors are corrected for, it seems like a stretch to relate debt to financial aid dollars. (To illustrate the point anecdotally, I went to low-cost public universities for two different graduate degrees: one where I got a tuition waiver and assistantship (and had zero debt), and one for a professional degree that had no such help available (and acquired significant debt... way more than any 'average' on this list!)

Howard Lander

One thing to consider: Duke still has financially blind admissions, unlike most if not all of the other schools on the list. So it may be that other schools admit more people that don't need loans.

Emma Lee

[Complete and total aside] you mention Yale - most people don't realize that Brodhead is the fourth Duke president to have graduated from Yale and that Duke and the school have a lot of ties (the least of which is that "Duke Blue" was originally "Yale Blue" ;)). Trinity College's first "modern president," John Franklin Crowell, was a Yalie, as was Douglas Knight and Nan Keohane got her doctorate there. Perhaps equally surprising to many people is that Duke has never had an alumnus/alumna president (Marquis Lafayette Wood, 1829-1893, was president of Trinity College at one point but obviously died before it became Duke). Instead our presidents have come from up and down the Eastern Seaboard (in addition to Yale, they are/were graduates of Harvard, Johns Hopkins, the Naval Academy, UNC-Chapel Hill [!!!!], Wellesley).

I think most of us would like to just forget that Sanford went to UNC, rewrite history, and make him a Duke alumnus instead ;D [/Complete and total aside]

On to a relevant comment:

Re: your suggestion about Duke enrolling local Durham students -- I think the university works especially hard to recruit in Durham and enroll local students to the degree that it is possible. I remember there were statistics released at some point one year about what % of Duke students actually grew up in Durham . . . . . I will try to track that down. When I was a student in the early/mid 00's I personally knew of about 10 Duke students who grew up in Durham - of course this is just an anecdote and the school has 6000 undergrads. . . . But my point is that Durham students do have a presence on campus.

Rob Gillespie

I may be drawing the conversation in a different direction, but one of the worst effects of the disconnect between where many Duke students grow up and Durham is the student body's perception of crime in Durham. In the editorial pages of the Chronicle, there is at least a weekly mention of Durham being a "dangerous place" or a remark about how crime seems to target Duke students. Every time an editorial materializes about housing, Safe Rides, or volunteerism, the centerpiece of the argument is Durham's crime problem. This is only amplified when Duke blast emails all students, staff, and faculty after a student is mugged or otherwise involved in a crime. I also hear it on the Duke buses each day, when students talk about which parts of town they are afraid to go to-- essentially anything more than 3 blocks away from East Campus.

Duke has been doing a lot to get their students out into Durham, including Duke Engage and the new tickets program at The Hub. I just wish the students had more context when they talked about crime. Having lived in a few cities, I know that when Duke students say "Durham has a lot of crime", they really mean that "Durham has more crime than Woodside, CA". If only there was a way to re-enforce this with the students. Yes, Durham is a city, and like most cities, crime happens. It shouldn't be a reason to avoid seeing the city and meeting its residents, however.

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