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January 14, 2009

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Erik

I tell you what, I've been home sick this entire week and I needed something to cheer me up. Suffice to say this post did the trick. Great stuff.

Toby

An excellent object lesson for prospective developers: if you work hard to include stakeholders in all stages of planning, and try to address their concerns in a conscientious manner, you are more likely to succeed. Yes, it takes more time up front, but this is more than offset by savings further down the development road.

GreenLantern

The controversy over the Brightleaf Commons development is a clear example of people NOT doing their research before buying a home. The developer has clearly stated intentions to build a shopping center zoned for on the property, and Google searches of the developer and zoning maps clearly brings up plans and articles for this.

THOSE OF US WHO LIVE NEARBY in subdivisions or rural tracts, other than environmentalist rabble-rousers like Ms. Motley-Pearson, those aformentioned folks who didn't do their homework, and those who want to maintain a fake rural lifestyle within 5 miles of one of the largest employment centers on the east coast, are widely in favor of having a shopping center with Harris Teeter, Home Depot, and the like. We're tired of having nothing in the eastern part of the county and having to drive across town or to Brier Creek (yes, that's in Wake county) to get what we need!

Jobs are scarce and home prices stagnant. Eastern Durham County needs more choices in retail, and we don't need to be sending our sales taxes over to county east of us. It's time for the City/County to get some backbone and approve the shopping center instead of deferring to a clear minority of dim-wits that don't represent the people on our side of town. This isn't Ninth Street, it's a typical suburban area that has typical suburban values--which don't include turning away every developer and shopping center that comes along.

Seth Vidal

GreenLantern,
If you want to express your views on the zoning approval, that's great. But it doesn't improve your case to insult the people opposing your position.

-sv

NRG

Great Post BCR! Very interesting how that meeting went.

Toby, I don't quite understand what you mean when you say "An excellent object lesson for prospective developers: if you work hard to include stakeholders in all stages of planning....you are more likely to succeed"

How exactly is a developer suppose to include future residents of a development in the planning process of said development before it is ever built? These developments get built and filled by new home buyers over a course of years, but the developer has to make his plans to submit to the county fo approval at the begining of the process. You can't involve stakeholders if the stakeholders don't even know they are stakeholders yet.

Sounds to me like a lot of people who bought in Brightleaf didn't do their due diligence.

~ NRG

JSR

GreenLantern: You are right in that people should do research before buying a home. Here are some comments and questions on the rest of your post.

You use the term "environmentalist rabble-rousers". Does this mean that you think a 430,000 sq ft commercial development has little or no impact on our water quality? If so, google "urban runoff".

You say "We're tired of having nothing in the eastern part of the county"... Some might say you should have done your homework before moving there.

You say "Jobs are scarce and home prices stagnant"... Does that sound like a good time to build a mega-shopping center that features a home improvement store as its anchor?

You say "It's time for the City/County to get some backbone"... Not giving the rubber stamp of approval for the type of development we've had since WWII is sign of having backbone.

You suggest a connection between dim-wits and 9th Street...you should compare the US Census track data on education levels in Durham County sometime, you might be surprised (you brought it up).

You mention having "typical suburban values" (a new term for me), yet you want convenient access to retail. Hmmm. If the suburbs fail in one area, that would be precisely it: convenient access to daily needs.

Just some food for thought.

JSR

GreenLantern

In reply to JSR:

You use the term "environmentalist rabble-rousers". Does this mean that you think a 430,000 sq ft commercial development has little or no impact on our water quality? If so, google "urban runoff".

--In nearly all cases, increased development creates runoff. Does this mean we stop building altogether just because some local activist living nearby with a blog "thinks" all developers are evil? I'm sure she finds it convenient to do her shopping at Brier Creek (which by the way is in someone's watershed)

You say "We're tired of having nothing in the eastern part of the county"... Some might say you should have done your homework before moving there.

--I've been living in the eastern part for over 10 years and we still don't have what developers and real estate agents have been promising in terms of retail and services, although Ravenstone Crossing is progress. The environmental acitivists opposed this shopping center, with specious arguments about runoff and water quality, but thankfully it got built. Again, ALL development creates some level of runoff, but that doesn't mean it will significantly affect wather quality in all cases. Would you be opposed to widening US70 to reduce pollution from idling cars, or would you be opposed because it could creat more runoff? There are always tradeoffs.

You say "Jobs are scarce and home prices stagnant"... Does that sound like a good time to build a mega-shopping center that features a home improvement store as its anchor?
--Are you kidding?? If a developer is confident enough to locate a new Kroger or Home Depot in an under-served part of the county, why don't you believe it would create jobs?? In this tight credit market, we'll be lucky to have any retail development in the next few years. But of course, YOU have a job don't you?

You say "It's time for the City/County to get some backbone"... Not giving the rubber stamp of approval for the type of development we've had since WWII is sign of having backbone.

--What I meant was that it's time the City/County start to ask the people who live in these communities what they want, instead of having to bend for every activist and blogger who shows up at city council meetings with their pet peeves. They should be taking into account the will of the majority and the overall benefits to their entire constituency

You suggest a connection between dim-wits and 9th Street...you should compare the US Census track data on education levels in Durham County sometime, you might be surprised (you brought it up).

--Well, don't assume a correlation between higher education levels and higher intelligence, judgement, or common sense. Seance, anywone?

You mention having "typical suburban values" (a new term for me), yet you want convenient access to retail. Hmmm. If the suburbs fail in one area, that would be precisely it: convenient access to daily needs.

--It's clear that most of the people commenting on this blog live in or near the area downtown, and tend to look down their noses at anyone who may just live 3-5 miles out. If you consider that suburban, so be it. We're not going to move in beside you, so get over yourself and your hip urban lifestyle. Fine, if that's your thing, but we can't all live downtown, nor can you expect the suburb to exist only in one quadrant. The eastern quadrant is growing, but underserved by retail. We'd appreciate it if you all stayed out of our business, unless you are directly affected.

TrinityRez

Trust me GreenLantern. I live in Trinity Park and there is definitely no correlation between level of formal education and common sense or perceptive insight into the way the real world functions (see Duke LAX fiasco for just one prime example). I cannot say that there is any empirical evidence to support my first hand experiences but there mostly likely is a reverse relationship between years of formal education and reality base common sense.

I grew up off Holder Rd(that means Durham native to the few people that can truly say such)in that area and there were farmers and blue collar workers that had a greater grasp on reality. These salt of the earth people were not snobs or thought they had to tell others what was good for them.

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