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December 03, 2007

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hovercraft

And how about that lady singing the "You'll never walk alone" song in the middle of everything? It was definitely more inspiring than when Jerry Lewis does it on the telethon, but on the other hand, huh?

Also noteworthy, when the judge thanked God and then said something like she wasn't afraid to say where her faith is. I think I liked the singing better.

Chaz

Do you know which judge that was? I wasn't there, and I like to keep track of which elected officials believe in separation of church and state and which ones don't.

Hovercraft

Chaz, I don't remember, and can't find it in the news stories or the council's agenda online, but the video will eventually be posted here:
http://durham.granicus.com/ViewPublisher.php?view_id=2

PWT

The judge you're referring to is Chief District Court Judge Elaine Bushfan. However, her comments are being misconstrued as some church-state question. This is clearly a cultural thing, as many African-American leaders in various fields (government, business, sports) make similar statements as they begin remarks. Anyone notice that Mayor Bell made a similar statement before his address?

Judge Bushfan is a person of deep faith, but she has been--and remains--a fair, impartial judge who understands the divide between church and state.

hovercraft

I don't want to accuse Judge Bushfan of not understanding church/state separation (I didn't hear Mayor Bell's comments, so I can't speak to that).

While I think it's wonderful that she has strong religious faith, I just found it strange that she chose to trumpet that fact at a city council meeting. How is her personal faith germane to her purpose for being there? She wasn't installing new officers in a church.

As for it being "clearly a cultural thing," would it be appropriate for the Judge to make a statement like that in open court?

I don't want to blow this up too much, I just would like our elected officials to show a little better judgement (so to speak) at times like this. The council regularly has a "moment of silence" at their meetings--that seems like more than enough nod to religion.

David McMullen

I said a couple of months ago that Stith would have had a decent chance of winning the election if his campaign style hadn't pissed off so many people. Not that I would have voted for him in any case, but my impression is that support for Bell is rather lukewarm in many quarters.

Chaz

It never bothered me much when officials brought up religion until two things happened: 1) the Bush admnistration took over power and religiosu beliefs began to drive policy on the highest levels of our country, underscoring the need to protect our fudamental right to separation of church and state and 2) I became good friends3 with several people who are atheists.

Not being an atheist, I did not really understand how important it is for people who do not subscribe to a religious belief to feel as if they are equally entitled to be heard in our country and that their moral beliefs are being equally respected. It's really quite important to many of them, and it has to do with making people understand you do not have to belong to a religion to have and to practice a moral code. Now that I understand that better, I'm a lot more wary of people who evoke religion when performing official duties. I think it's more important to tone it down, so everyone is included -- and to recognize that, in evoking your own religion, you are always, rather consciously or not, stepping on the toes of what, a dozen other religions, along with those who have no formal religion?

I just think it is an easy thing officials can do and should do to respect other cultures and other people, no matter what particular culture they come from themselves.

Having said that, I really like and respect Elaine Bushfan. She is a person of great integrity, loyalty and passion and a good judge. There are far worse things she could say or do. I just think public officials should be a little more aware of the issue and its personal effect on some people.

barry

After "You'll Never Walk Alone," i was ready for Liverpool v Man. U.

As for the judge's remarks, i have to say there was something in her tone that was almost defiant, which i also found off-putting. The same Constitution which she swore the new office holders to uphold also states:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

9/9

Can someone give those of us not there a recap of the judges comments?

seth vidal

I hadn't read the comments to this thread earlier, but I'm pleased to see so many people supportive of maintaining some sanity in our separation of church in state. I'm an atheist and I worry about religious dominance in our government. I know if I was particularly persecuted I can 'pass' as a christian b/c there's no useful defining characteristic that defines a christian (sprinkling water on me doesn't do anything other than get me wet), but I would really rather not hide who I am. I've been spat on, cursed at, prayed for and threatened b/c of what I don't believe, it's not a fun experience and I'd like for no one to suffer it at the hands of the elected (or appointed) gov't.

Aidil

The judges comments were simply that she thanks God for being there, and then followed by (I guess being taken as defiant) a note on how acknowledging her faith is not something she is scared to do. I'm sure she is often being told that as a judge she is not allowed to even appear religious.

Whether someone is Christian or not, I really don't care to ask someone else to limit their expression of faith (or lack thereof). As a point of clarification, the Constitution only asks two things. 1)Government cannot establish a church (politicians that double as clergy dubbed relatives of God, taxes as tithes..you get the hint). 2)Government cannot ask you to stop or start practicing in any specific way (churches cannot be told to attend services on Wednesday with a graven image of GW Bush in the center for prayer).

I agree Bush has made things creepy, but our laws do understand that people of faith (or not) are always going to be found in the mix and they come with all their flavor. We wouldn't have it any other way.

Her comments were however, for anyone that is curious, a far cry from spitting on anyone. Nothing hateful for the masses, just a little taste of who she is.

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